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	<title>Comments on: How About Them Bees?</title>
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	<description>If you want to change the world, change yourself first...</description>
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		<title>By: lavendercreek</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator>lavendercreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-372</guid>
		<description>Peer here.

The truth is, that there are many different methods of keeping bees. Some are geared towards maximum honey harvest, some are not. Some tend to consider the needs of the bee keeper, some more the needs of the bees. Some are designed around a complicated way of handling bees and materials, some tend to be more simple and cheap. 

Warre&#039; bee keeping yields a lot less honey per hive. Around here, one could expect about 5 - 15 kg of honey per hive, while commercial or semi commercial bee keepers typically harvest between 25 and 40 kg. That would be with a hive system similar to Langstroth or Dadant in the US and France, Nationals in the UK and Zander and Deutsch-Normal in Germany.

They do that by keeping the bees from swarming in late spring, but also by harvesting twice a year, trying to get them up and running as early as possible in the year, feeding them up with sugar sirup in late summer and so on. For that the hives have to be openend often. 

The busiest time for sifting throught the whole hive, pulling every single comb about every 7 to 10 days, is about 4 - 8 weeks in spring (in this here climate zone), when one would look for queen cells, which are then removed again and again, in the hope to keep a swarm from happening (which appearantly often works), so the bees stay together, don&#039;t export bees and honey to form a new hive. That way they are in greater force to collect honey for the bee keeper.

When swarming time is over (around here about end of May, beginning of June), the bees are left alone more, unless one would do some serious queen raising or other tricks.

Beekeepers associations usually go with a system like that, so it&#039;s not too strange that people like that would stand for that kind of system. And it certainly works.

With a Warre&#039; hive, it is possible to pull combs, but it&#039;s more cumbersome. However, Warre&#039; bee keepers often let swarms happen, feeling that they get enough honey for themselves and their family anyway, and try to catch the swarms to form new hives. And leave the bees alone as much as possible, so they are not as stressed and thereby perhaps more robust and resistant.

But you can still pull combs in an emergency, such as a serious illness. In some jurisdictions, this is necessary, because the local bee inspector might require it, then. I hear this is the case in some areas of the US. I really wouldn&#039;t know about the UK.

I currently would certainly open the hive in late summer, to check for mites, and to do a mite treatment if necesarry. This is something Warre&#039; didn&#039;t have to deal with in his time, but we do. So ...

But Warre&#039;, in his book, talks a lot about splitting and mixing hives, feeding, rearing queens in a more natural way and so on. So Warre&#039; himself, while slightly favouring leaving the bees alone for the most part, did have and use methods that required opening of the hives.

It&#039;s really a matter of taste, philosophy and purpose.

As for the truth, personally I do not really believe in one absolute truth. There are usually several truths for different people.   :) 

If there is still something unclear about this, don&#039;t hesitate to ask further. While I am certainly no expert, I will answer, as far as I can.

Regards,
Peer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peer here.</p>
<p>The truth is, that there are many different methods of keeping bees. Some are geared towards maximum honey harvest, some are not. Some tend to consider the needs of the bee keeper, some more the needs of the bees. Some are designed around a complicated way of handling bees and materials, some tend to be more simple and cheap. </p>
<p>Warre&#8217; bee keeping yields a lot less honey per hive. Around here, one could expect about 5 &#8211; 15 kg of honey per hive, while commercial or semi commercial bee keepers typically harvest between 25 and 40 kg. That would be with a hive system similar to Langstroth or Dadant in the US and France, Nationals in the UK and Zander and Deutsch-Normal in Germany.</p>
<p>They do that by keeping the bees from swarming in late spring, but also by harvesting twice a year, trying to get them up and running as early as possible in the year, feeding them up with sugar sirup in late summer and so on. For that the hives have to be openend often. </p>
<p>The busiest time for sifting throught the whole hive, pulling every single comb about every 7 to 10 days, is about 4 &#8211; 8 weeks in spring (in this here climate zone), when one would look for queen cells, which are then removed again and again, in the hope to keep a swarm from happening (which appearantly often works), so the bees stay together, don&#8217;t export bees and honey to form a new hive. That way they are in greater force to collect honey for the bee keeper.</p>
<p>When swarming time is over (around here about end of May, beginning of June), the bees are left alone more, unless one would do some serious queen raising or other tricks.</p>
<p>Beekeepers associations usually go with a system like that, so it&#8217;s not too strange that people like that would stand for that kind of system. And it certainly works.</p>
<p>With a Warre&#8217; hive, it is possible to pull combs, but it&#8217;s more cumbersome. However, Warre&#8217; bee keepers often let swarms happen, feeling that they get enough honey for themselves and their family anyway, and try to catch the swarms to form new hives. And leave the bees alone as much as possible, so they are not as stressed and thereby perhaps more robust and resistant.</p>
<p>But you can still pull combs in an emergency, such as a serious illness. In some jurisdictions, this is necessary, because the local bee inspector might require it, then. I hear this is the case in some areas of the US. I really wouldn&#8217;t know about the UK.</p>
<p>I currently would certainly open the hive in late summer, to check for mites, and to do a mite treatment if necesarry. This is something Warre&#8217; didn&#8217;t have to deal with in his time, but we do. So &#8230;</p>
<p>But Warre&#8217;, in his book, talks a lot about splitting and mixing hives, feeding, rearing queens in a more natural way and so on. So Warre&#8217; himself, while slightly favouring leaving the bees alone for the most part, did have and use methods that required opening of the hives.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really a matter of taste, philosophy and purpose.</p>
<p>As for the truth, personally I do not really believe in one absolute truth. There are usually several truths for different people.   <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>If there is still something unclear about this, don&#8217;t hesitate to ask further. While I am certainly no expert, I will answer, as far as I can.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Peer</p>
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		<title>By: docross</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>docross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Hi I have just built my first beehive a Warre and went along an event held by the local association of beekeepers to find out about membership and courses (hope to get bees next spring). Told the Secretary of the club I had a Warre.  He had never heard of them, so I explained about it.  He told me I would have to check the hive every week to see if the bees were about to swarm and if I  didn&#039;t they would swarm. I would also have to check it for disease.  I understood that Warre&#039;s only needed opening once a year.

What is the truth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi I have just built my first beehive a Warre and went along an event held by the local association of beekeepers to find out about membership and courses (hope to get bees next spring). Told the Secretary of the club I had a Warre.  He had never heard of them, so I explained about it.  He told me I would have to check the hive every week to see if the bees were about to swarm and if I  didn&#8217;t they would swarm. I would also have to check it for disease.  I understood that Warre&#8217;s only needed opening once a year.</p>
<p>What is the truth?</p>
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		<title>By: Sustainable beekeeping&#8230; part 01, not complete.. :: manandearth.net</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Sustainable beekeeping&#8230; part 01, not complete.. :: manandearth.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-227</guid>
		<description>[...] http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/" rel="nofollow">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peer</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Peer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-221</guid>
		<description>Hello Adam,

I have used exactly what Phil recommends, I am quite happy with it. In fact, I got the idea from his book (The Barefoot Beekeeper), which is available on lulu.com. Without that I would have used pure boiled lineseed oil, which is also good for protecting wood.

I like the book a lot and do highly recommend it - it is a good combo of factual information, philosophy and inspiration. Very usable even when you don&#039;t use his system (horizontal top bar hives) exactly. I also happen to agree wholeheartedly with his ideas about commercial versus small-scale bee keeping.

Thanks for writing it, Phil.

Anyway ... The one hive that is active since this year&#039;s early summer is still fine; only the roof boards are already grey. I think I will put on a new roof element (I have some in reserve) with the next spring visit, and take the current one in for re-oiling and using on next year&#039;s swarms.

Greetings,
Peer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Adam,</p>
<p>I have used exactly what Phil recommends, I am quite happy with it. In fact, I got the idea from his book (The Barefoot Beekeeper), which is available on lulu.com. Without that I would have used pure boiled lineseed oil, which is also good for protecting wood.</p>
<p>I like the book a lot and do highly recommend it &#8211; it is a good combo of factual information, philosophy and inspiration. Very usable even when you don&#8217;t use his system (horizontal top bar hives) exactly. I also happen to agree wholeheartedly with his ideas about commercial versus small-scale bee keeping.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing it, Phil.</p>
<p>Anyway &#8230; The one hive that is active since this year&#8217;s early summer is still fine; only the roof boards are already grey. I think I will put on a new roof element (I have some in reserve) with the next spring visit, and take the current one in for re-oiling and using on next year&#8217;s swarms.</p>
<p>Greetings,<br />
Peer</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Chandler</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-219</guid>
		<description>Nice job, guys! 

I use a 20:1 mix of linseed oil and beeswax, which works well. If you build hives with Western Red Cedar, they don&#039;t need any protection.

We have a lively forum that includes Warré and other vertical hives at www.biobees.com/forum and David Heaf&#039;s translation of Warré&#039;s book can be downloaded from warre.biobees.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice job, guys! </p>
<p>I use a 20:1 mix of linseed oil and beeswax, which works well. If you build hives with Western Red Cedar, they don&#8217;t need any protection.</p>
<p>We have a lively forum that includes Warré and other vertical hives at <a href="http://www.biobees.com/forum" rel="nofollow">http://www.biobees.com/forum</a> and David Heaf&#8217;s translation of Warré&#8217;s book can be downloaded from warre.biobees.com</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-218</guid>
		<description>Hi there,
I enjoyed reading your article very much. Just finished building my first hive. I was wondering whether you find the linseed- bees wax coat enough to protect the wood? I would be so happy to find a non toxic solution for preserving soft wood.
Thanks,
Adam in wet wet England.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,<br />
I enjoyed reading your article very much. Just finished building my first hive. I was wondering whether you find the linseed- bees wax coat enough to protect the wood? I would be so happy to find a non toxic solution for preserving soft wood.<br />
Thanks,<br />
Adam in wet wet England.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lavendercreek</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>lavendercreek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-195</guid>
		<description>Hi, yes these are Warre hives. I think this system would definitely be worth a try for you! Peer mentioned that this design, being smaller and better insulated, makes it easier for the bees to keep themselves warm with less effort.

Hmmm, I might be misunderstanding your question about attaching the wax strip. Peer melted wax and painted a strip of wax onto each slat. This is only meant to show the bees where to build their comb and in what direction to build it. He nailed the slats in place and instead of 8 which is what the original design calls for, he added 9 slats in the hopes that the bees would build smaller cells, if they had to work in a narrower space. If this didn&#039;t answer your question let me know and I will try again :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, yes these are Warre hives. I think this system would definitely be worth a try for you! Peer mentioned that this design, being smaller and better insulated, makes it easier for the bees to keep themselves warm with less effort.</p>
<p>Hmmm, I might be misunderstanding your question about attaching the wax strip. Peer melted wax and painted a strip of wax onto each slat. This is only meant to show the bees where to build their comb and in what direction to build it. He nailed the slats in place and instead of 8 which is what the original design calls for, he added 9 slats in the hopes that the bees would build smaller cells, if they had to work in a narrower space. If this didn&#8217;t answer your question let me know and I will try again <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MDSchwartz</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>MDSchwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 05:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Is this what is known as a Warre hive? We are considering a move to that design with small cell foundation to see if we can improve our chances of overwintering bees in Interior Alaska.

Pity you don&#039;t have a photo of how Peer attached the wax strips to the top bar- just pinched them on with the slat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this what is known as a Warre hive? We are considering a move to that design with small cell foundation to see if we can improve our chances of overwintering bees in Interior Alaska.</p>
<p>Pity you don&#8217;t have a photo of how Peer attached the wax strips to the top bar- just pinched them on with the slat?</p>
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		<title>By: Finally&#8230;A Swarm! &#171; Down on the Farm</title>
		<link>http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/what-about-those-bees/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Finally&#8230;A Swarm! &#171; Down on the Farm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lavendercreek.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-166</guid>
		<description>[...] June 3, 2008 by lavendercreek    We&#8217;ve been anxiously awaiting one so that we could begin establishing the new hives that Peer built [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] June 3, 2008 by lavendercreek    We&#8217;ve been anxiously awaiting one so that we could begin establishing the new hives that Peer built [...]</p>
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